Ehud Olmert says that making peace with the Palestinians is the most important challenge.
By STEVE LINDEEhud Olmert & Geroge W Bush 521(photo credit: REUTERS)
It’s Monday evening. Ehud Olmert sits in his high-rise office in Tel Aviv, apologizing for not wearing a tie. Olmert, who is 66, appears to be tired and tense, perhaps from the legal battles he is currently fighting. He declines to answer questions about the corruption charges against him, which forced him to step down as prime minister in 2009, after serving since 2006.But as soon as he begins answering questions about current affairs (in English), Olmert becomes energized, passionately addressing the issues of the day.He urges the Netanyahu government to take serious action to reach a peace agreement with the Palestinians, calling this “the single most important issue” facing Israel.He recalls how the Soviet Union and the US learned to live with each other’s nuclear power, but states unequivocally that Israel cannot live with a nuclear Iran.He declines to take sides when it comes to the leadership of his party, Kadima, but enthusiastically welcomes Yair Lapid’s entry into politics.He doesn’t rule out a political comeback, and looks forward to being the keynote speaker at ‘The Jerusalem Post Conference’ in New York on April 29.He also eagerly awaits a time when, following a peace deal with the Palestinians, Israel can shift its investment in security to improving the quality of its citizens’ lives. It has the potential, he says, to become “the No. 1 state in the world.”“This is not a dream,” he declares. “It can be a reality.”Are you encouraged that Israel and the Palestinians have started to talk directly again? Well, I’m always very happy that there are contacts and negotiations, by way of comparison of course. Compared to the recent past, the fact that there are some contacts – under the auspices of the Hashemite Kingdom and the very positive and forceful initiative of King Abdullah II – the fact that the Israelis and the Palestinians meet, is I think, positive and as I said, comparatively, I am very happy.To say that I’m encouraged by what appears to be the content of the negotiations and the prospects for rapid movement forward, I’m not so certain. I’m afraid that both sides are sticking to the old rhetoric, which is not going to move us forward. One must understand one thing: We have been wasting years and years and years talking “near” the issues, but not “through” into the heart of the issues. I tried to do it when I was prime minister and that’s what I suggest to everyone who negotiates now – both the Israeli side and the Palestinian side, I’m not relieving the Palestinians of their responsibilities: they have a responsibility and they have to manifest this responsibility by being sincere and open and flexible. Equally, one must expect that this government as well will come forward with force and with courage and with a real intent to conclude this interim agreement.
How do you think that the events in the Arab world have impacted the situation? Look, the problem isn’t simple. You can interpret it both ways; it depends what you prefer. If you want, you can call what is now known as the Arab Spring a terrible negative. It shows the weakness of the Arab regimes and therefore it is discouraging, and we have to be careful now about making agreements with countries whose leaderships’ identity is yet unknown and might be very negative.On the other hand, and this is my approach, even in those countries which were not the symbols of democracies – now everyone is missing the former regime in one country or another – but in which of these countries was there any kind of democracy until then? In none! So let’s face it, what we have seen is that for the first time – most likely not without any kind of encouragement or pressure by organized bodies – this was an eruption of the emotions and the desires of the rank and file, the grassroots, the people, that they want to change.Now this is not a bad or a negative development. The question is what will be the next step? I think that if we will reach an agreement with the Palestinians, it will be enormously helpful in projecting an atmosphere of hope in the Middle East, and maybe helping the moderate forces in other countries to move along. And therefore, I’m not always happy with the immediate outcome of what has been named the Arab Spring, but in the long run, I think that peoples of the region finally found out that they are powerful and that they can make a change. And any new government in any of those Arab countries, whatever they will be, even the Muslim Brotherhood, will know one thing: that the people can do to them what they did to the former government, and that therefore is of great significance.Do you think international sanctions are harming Iran, or will Israel have to learn to live with a nuclear Iran? I don’t want to give an immediate, direct answer to this question, which is very complex. While we talk about Israel and Iran, I always remember vividly that in my life time America and Russia were both nuclear powers and both lived under the possible threat of nuclear power against the other. I remember the days, for instance, when nuclear missiles were detected 75 kilometers from Miami, in Cuba, in October 1962, and almost appeared to have collided, and I remember the scene, which devastated many people.The Soviet leader, Nikita Khrushchev, took off his shoe and banged on the table of the security council of the United Nations and said, “We will defeat you, we will win!” That wasn’t very encouraging and millions of Americans may have felt threatened by the potential nuclear power of Russia. And yet, things changed. So if we want to draw comparisons from the past, there are comparisons in different directions.Still, if you want to conclude that I will acquiesce with a nuclear Iran, the answer is no, definitely no. The question is not whether we can live with a nuclear Iran. The answer is we can’t. The question is how and in what way, what measures do we take? How do we stop Iran from becoming nuclear? I think there can be different ways.Some ways are already implemented, quite successfully, I think. On the one hand, all the Israeli leadership, I used to say when I was prime minister and I think the prime minister today repeats it, which is good, that America has to lead it. So if you want America to lead it, I suggest two things: Don’t talk publicly about it too much, because no one in America wants to be seen as if he does something because of Israeli pressure. Not only does it not help, but it helps to reverse the attitude of those who might be willing to take serious and sharp measures against Iran. That’s No. 1.No. 2, use other channels, quiet channels, secret channels to influence the Americans and Europeans to use their power in order to prevent Iran from becoming nuclear. And in this context, if there will be an agreement between Israel and the Palestinians, it will help facilitate a more aggressive attitude by the Western powers against Iran. This is an additional argument about why we should be serious about negotiating with the Palestinians.Looking at the internal political situation in Israel, do you think there’s a chance of early elections being called? (Smiles) In Israel, I think the question should be reversed: Is there a chance that elections will take place on time? Because in the last 25 years that I can recall, there were never elections on time. They were always called earlier than the dates they were scheduled. So there is always a chance that there will be early elections. I don’t see any particular reason at this point, because the government seems to be quite stable. However, as far as I am concerned, I am not a supporter of this government, so any day that they will be overtaken by someone who I support I think will be positive, from my point of view. But of course, this is not an objective analysis; this is just my position.You were good friends with the late Shinui leader Yosef (Tommy) Lapid. Do you think that his son, Yair, could be a real political force in the future? First of all, Yair Lapid as a person is a very meaningful force. He is a bright, young man. By the way, he’s not so young. He’s more or less the age of President Obama, perhaps a year younger.Why when someone below 50 says he wants to join politics, everyone looks with amazement, and when someone at the age of 46 is elected president of the United States, it’s most natural. Or someone at the age of 42 in Great Britain becomes prime minister like David Cameron, it’s obvious. Or when Tony Blair was 44 when he was elected prime minister, it was obvious.Only in Israel when you are 50, you are still young. So Yair is not that young, No.1. No. 2, he’s fresh. He comes from outside of the political system. Is it not what we all want? That young, successful, bright, serious people will join politics? This is what we want.Tommy Lapid was my best personal friend and I consider myself very, very close to Yair. I’m not a member of his party, and will not be a member of his party. I’m a member of Kadima, but I’m very happy that he decided to join the political system. I think that he contributed a great deal. I think he’s a very serious guy and I am looking forward with high hopes that his contribution will change the situation in our country.How do you think your successor, Tzipi Livni, has fared in Kadima, and do you think Shaul Mofaz could take over the leadership of the party? That I don’t know. It remains to be seen. I’m not involved in day-to-day affairs of Kadima.I really don’t want to get into this. I can say that my successor did not succeed to become prime minister, as I did almost four years earlier. But what one has to admit is that she came up as the largest party in Israel. Kadima is still the largest party in Israel, and what will be in the next elections, I don’t know.If she wins the primary and still maintains the leadership of the opposition party, or whether it will be Shaul Mofaz or other candidates, we’ll have to wait and see. It’s too early to pass judgment on Tzipi Livni, and at the same time no one can disregard Shaul Mofaz, who was chief of staff, one of the greatest warriors in Israeli history, and a former minister of defense with great experience. Either will be good competition. It’s good for democracy, it’s good for the vitality and dynamics of the party, and we’ll see who wins.What would you say to Israelis who miss you, and what would your best advice be to the Netanyahu government? (Laughs) First of all I like your question. I don’t know whether people miss me or they don’t. I sometimes hear people in the street, and it certainly makes me feel very flattered and very proud. They hug me and say, “When will you come back? We miss you!” and so on. Look, I always thought throughout my life, and I’ve been in politics longer than Netanyahu, and perhaps longer than most of the prominent figures now in government or in the opposition, and I’ve been through almost everywhere. I was the mayor of Jerusalem, and a minister in almost every important ministry, I was prime minister, and I always felt the same in all the positions that I had: That at the end of the day, public relations and popularity and positive reactions are important, but they are not the heart of what you are.What is important is what you do, what you really want to achieve. What is is that keeps you moving every day? I mean what is the goal that you are striving to achieve, the one that guides you all the way through? The feeling that I have is that survivability in politics is an important ingredient, because if you don’t survive politically, you can’t achieve what you want to achieve. But when survivability becomes the goal, then you miss the opportunity to do something that will be left after you, for the next generations.My desire, my ambition, my hopes were that I could reach an agreement with the Palestinians. That I think is still the single most important issue in our lives. It will change everything. It will once and for all give a legitimacy to borders that Israel will have, a recognition by the entire international community, and will allow Israel to change its priorities in a meaningful way and to invest the energies, the unlimited talents that we have in the building and the strengthening and the quality of life in this country. Already now, Israel is a great place to live in.This is a great and very successful country. When I think that we will be able to shift our priorities, instead of fighting terrorists, instead of investing so much in security, to invest that in building and the improvement of the quality of our lives is what will make us the No. 1 state in the world. And this is not a dream. It can be a reality. And this is what I expect from any prime minister, that he will set a goal and not think how popular it will make him today or tomorrow. Forget about the opinion polls, forget about what they write about you in The Jerusalem Post or in Yediot Aharonot, or say on Channel 2 on television, but what is it that is important for the people of Israel who you have to serve? (Bangs his hand on the table) That’s what you have to think about. That’s what I tried to think about. It did not always make me popular, but I think if there’s some degree of respect for me, then I think that perhaps those people think that I was looking forward to doing what was important for the country, and not what was important for my political survivability.What are your own future plans?Are you too involved in legal battles at the moment that take up your time, or can we expect a comeback?I’m a citizen of the State of Israel. Everything which is part of the life of this country is important to me, and I certainly am looking with great excitement at what can and should be done in this country, and days will tell. I’m always optimistic.Are you looking forward to ‘The Jerusalem Post Conference’ in New York in April?The Jerusalem Post is one of the most distinguished names that represent the State of Israel. It has been the chief foreign- language publication coming out of Israel for generations, even before the State of Israel was born, so a conference organized by The Jerusalem Post is a major conference, certainly for people who do not live in the State of Israel and are anxious to hear the voices of Israel under the auspices of such a distinguished organization as The Jerusalem Post. I’m looking forward with great excitement, because I’m going to meet some of my friends, both from Israel and America. I hope to see my former colleague, Michael Bloomberg, the mayor of New York, with whom I worked when both of us were mayors, and others, including some of the most prominent commanders of the Israeli security forces in recent history who will be there. I think it will provide a very good opportunity to discuss openly and in a very serious manner some of the current issues that are on the agenda, and are on the minds of millions of people across the world, and I thank The Jerusalem Post for organizing it and providing the opportunity for all of us to be there. ■
