Then the second intifada broke out and cafes and buses in Israel were being blown up. There were large numbers of Palestinian and Israeli casualties. How did you feel? Sickened. I was disturbed by any attack of violence against Israelis or Palestinians. We talk politics, but when you talk to an Israeli or Palestinian mother who lost their sons, they are not consoled by politics or the numbers of the other side. Even if there is a legal argument in international law to defend yourself by any means, including armed resistance and violence, I cannot accept or condone it.Why did armed Palestinian groups get so much support in the second intifada? There was rejection of nonviolence because many had connected the process of negotiations with nonviolence and said negotiations had failed, especially militant factions. The Israeli military also understood how powerful nonviolent protest was in the first intifada [and] didn’t want us to engage in nonviolence either – not because they wanted violence, but because they felt nonviolence gave Israeli and international attention to human rights violations and abuses.We grew tremendously, but the number of children killed by the Israeli military in the first two months of the uprising was [very high and] a lot of violence of the Israeli military was at street demonstrations – people did throw rocks, and the army [often] shot with live ammunition or rubber bullets [according to B’Tselem reports]. They were more violent in their response than in the first uprising.It was a major wake-up call for many Palestinians to see unarmed resistance as not achieving results.... We insisted and continued insisting that nonviolence is the only option, but we were rejected and accused of being traitors or members of the CIA or Mossad. I was interrogated by political factions and we were asked to justify our activities... [they] tried to stop us. The Israeli peace movement went into hibernation as well.Many people [on both sides] gave up.Now, a decade later, there are several unarmed Palestinian groups, but no consensus about nonviolence; what is the debate? You will hear Palestinians say “it is not nonviolence, it is popular resistance.”Many Palestinians and internationals think that nonviolence means being passive and nonconfrontational. They hear nonviolence and think negotiations, everybody getting along with each other, dialogue circles, kumbaya and let’s be friends. It is not that. It is standing up strong for your rights in a way that does not undermine the humanity of the other – physically, emotionally or spiritually.This is different than dialogue or negotiations... if I know something is legally mine and if you have no right to it, I will resist nonviolently without insulting you or fighting with you, but I will even sacrifice my life not to lose my right. I will accept any response from you – even violent – [but] you will not change my tactic or make me violent or revengeful against you. This is resistance.We also have to try and understand what the other side is thinking and feeling.What is the connection between “nonviolent resistance” and understanding Jewish experience? I ended up researching and going to Auschwitz and Birkenau to find out what happened in the Holocaust and how it affects the mind-set of Israelis today. It was a very powerful experience to see as close as possible what happened – and to see what Israeli youth who go on these trips are learning: how to defend, how to be strong, not to trust others.... I even heard several guides say that given the chance, Arabs and Palestinians would do the same – that was a complete revelation; it completely changed my perspective in a second.These 13-year-old kids have been dealing with trauma of the past and maybe of the future... they don’t trust anybody...and in a few years they are going to be at a checkpoint. I said, looking at them, the soldiers are not evil [but] probably really scared, and to them I’m [a] threat at the level of the Nazis. I started deeper research into the Holocaust and communal post-traumatic stress disorder... now I think that the additional definition of nonviolence is also about healing.The whole world completely neglected the trauma of the Jewish community, and the response has been lots of financial and political support, but that does not heal trauma. Nonviolence breaks the myth that Palestinians, Arabs and Muslims are out to destroy. By standing up for our rights but not using violence, they can’t see violence and say, “See, you can’t trust them.” Israelis don’t view violence as a tactic – even a wrong tactic – to gain legitimate rights, but as “they want to kill us, throw us into the sea,” and this fear rhetoric is used by Israeli politicians and the media.We are developing a new teaching manual about the Holocaust to understand the mind-set of a soldier. I want a Palestinian activist to understand, how does it help a soldier to have any compassion for you if you yell at him? By Palestinians engaging in a long-term strategy and continuous acts of nonviolence, they can begin breaking that psychological wall that needs to break before the cement wall.Israelis charge that these “popular resistance committees” are not truly nonviolent. Is throwing rocks or destroying a military fence violence?Acts of violence and nonviolence are not just determined by the person acting, but also by the recipient of the action. So if a soldier really feels threatened by a rock thrown at him, then it is violence. If the soldier does not feel threatened, this means it is not physically violent, but does not mean it is nonviolent from a strategic, moral and philosophical point of view. Personally I would never throw a stone and I will always discourage people from throwing stones. Language can also be violence. If I yell at a soldier and he feels insulted or violated, then this is also violence... spiritual violence against ethical norms and values.Part of our training is that once you engage in nonviolence it doesn’t mean that the other side will engage in the same way. The Israeli military is expected [by the people] to be violent. We do lots of work with children and communities to make sure it’s clear that we do not want a single stone thrown, [but] the children have anger, frustration, and suddenly there is a person in front of them to vent against and he is fully armed.... But it takes a lot of discipline to be engaged in nonviolence, so we should not just excuse people who throw stones. If you cannot be disciplined than you should not participate.For people to engage in nonviolence, they have to be trained at the level of discipline as soldiers in the army. An American colonel who was in the Vietnam War did a training [session] here – he said that 70 percent of what US soldiers train is not arms but commitment, steadfastness, team work, survival.There are several nonviolent resistance networks.... It started in Budrus, and I am involved in the Bethlehem area – Masara, Walaja, El-Khader, Beit Sahur, Beit Jala, Irtas. [Protesters] have never tried to break a fence built on a historic border between the West Bank and Israel; the fences [that have been attacked] are always on Palestinian farmland. It is very insulting and dehumanizing when building a fence on [private Palestinian] land and then saying it is public domain and [we] can’t touch it.The army always declares any area where there is going to be or is a protest a “closed military zone.” They come with photocopies of documents in Hebrew that we can’t understand, and that is supposed to be enough justification. But it is land that belongs to Palestinians and not to the military; people are protesting on their own property, and we never go into a military base or settlement; it is only on Palestinian land.What influence can the small networks of such committees have?One roadblock preventing nonviolence from evolving into a mass movement is lack of leadership. Our organization has a leadership development program that is in demand to fill this gap – we have already trained 220 Palestinian leaders, including some in the popular resistance committees, including [cousins] Bassem and Nami Tamimi [the now-imprisoned leader of the Nabi Saleh protests], women’s, youth, health, children’s organizations, and local political activists from Fatah and other factions.Last year, we had a special training for 100 members of political factions, including Hamas affiliates, PFLP [Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine], and the Palestinian security forces. Forty percent were women. Some that we trained will become very, very influential leaders in the very near future. We also want to reach 100 women leaders in Gaza, but they have not been able to get permits [from Gaza to the West Bank].... We have to be creative, with nonviolent events that make Israelis understand the Palestinian point of view and not want to remain silent.You are Christian and have said there is a myth that the nonviolent Palestinian movement is fueled by Christian Arabs. What is the reality?The leaders who have come to our trainings are 98% Muslims. The nonviolent movement is led by Muslims.What has been the most surprising reaction you have gotten to a nonviolent activity?I was in El-Khader in front of a house that was being demolished. It was hot and the protest was peaceful; I was just talking to soldiers – soldiers are ordered not to respond. In the background you could hear the children and mother crying...it was an old house built many years ago that they were going to knock down to build a road to the [Efrat] settlement. I asked, how could demolishing this house provide security for your family and not create instead a houseful of angry children? I kept talking and eventually one soldier just fell on his knees bawling. He was put in a jeep and driven away.What are you advocating for Palestinians to do before asking for state recognition at the UN?The [Palestinian] leadership [should] convince the Palestinian community that there has to be recognition of the civil and equal rights of both sides to live on the land. We all have a history on this land, and denying the narrative of the other is a waste of time and energy. The only thing we have access to is to respect and honor the other, learn from the other, and not use our own past to deny the rights of the other to be here.Palestinians need to accept that Jews have always lived here.... The thing the Hebrew community ignores is that many Muslim families took in Jews and protected them in 1929 [anti-Jewish riots]. I am not saying that Palestinians should ever recognize Israel as a Jewish state, but recognition of both communities [having] full and equal rights to exist on this land should be the preamble to a political solution, mostly a two-state framework.
What is next for you?There is a group of us who have a common dream to build a community where Israelis and Palestinians – Jewish, Muslim, Christian – can live together in peace, sharing not just a political point of view, but social [and] environmental concerns and research – like Neveh Shalom, but not only Israeli citizens. It will be self-sufficient in terms of food, harvesting rainwater....We already have 50 people who are interested – Israeli and Palestinian, secular and religious – and ready to move in. But we are just in the research stage and doing a little fund-raising.It sounds like a crazy idea, but there are practical models, and it is not as if Jews, Muslims and Christians are genetically created to struggle.